(Muktanand requests the five debaters to raise their questions.
(Muktanand requests the five debaters to raise their questions.
Muktanand said:-
O Brahmins if you have anything in your heart to ask me, please do that as per the tenets of the scriptures. 1.
Suvrat points out that they had come with a plan in their mind.
Suvrat reports:-
O king, when addressed in this way by that sage those (five), pretending to be curious, said (the following) while the others stood listening- 2.
The debaters pose their questions.
O sage, by what means is the highest spiritual well-being attainable by human beings in this world? Please explain to us that means as per the scriptures. 3.
Thus asked by them, the sage, capable of dispelling all doubts, said to them in order to know what exactly their intention was. 4.
Muktanand asked:-
O good people, please tell me what you have so far ascertained to be the means of spiritual well-being. 5.
The debaters’ answer.
We indeed have truly come to the conclusion that uttering the name of Vishnu which removes all the sins in the age of Kali is the means to spiritual well-being. 6.
Muktanand’s rejoinder.
Only he who mutters (holy) names while visualizing in his heart the image of God as actually seen by him gets the fruit of Nama-sankirtan (muttering the name). 7.
A man whose confused mind runs from on mundane object to another can get no good results of Nma-sankirtan. 8.
If there is no actual visualization of Narayan who is the object of meditation, how can he be seen at the time of Nama-sankirtan ? 9.
For a person who also sees ordinary vulgar things and thinks only of them all the time, spiritual emancipation becomes more unattainable because of Nama-sankirtan. 10.
If Moksa (highest spiritual bliss) were attainable only by muttering the name (of God), then all the teachings of the Vedas concerning the three subjects, namely, knowledge, rituals and worship would be meaningless. 11.
If that is your contention then your thinking would be non- vedic; it is our position based on the Vedas that actual God- realization is the cause of Moksa. 12.
By means of muttering the names of Shri Harione may get religious merit, one may reduce one’s accumulated sins, but one can attain emancipation from mundane existence only through realizing Him. 13.
Therefore, (you should ascertain) whether you have actually realized Him. If you have, then you have achieved the goal; if not, then you should strive on. 14.
The response of the debaters.
The debaters argued:-
There are the ways of knowledge, devotion and rituals prescribed by the Vedas; but in the age of Kali they cannot be resorted to by the men whose bodies are perishable in a short duration. 15.
So it is our considered opinion that only by muttering the name of Shri Harispiritual well-being is achievable. How can visualizing Him actually be possible in this terrible Kali age ? 16.
And you also know that Ajamila was a great sinner but he attained Moksa merely by muttering the name of Narayan. 17.
Muktanand’s refutation.
Muktanand said:-
O Brahmins, it is clearly stated in the Bhagavata that the freedom accruing from muttering the holy name is (freedom) from accumulating sins or from the bonds of Yama (the god of death).’ 18.
(There is a verse from the Bhagavata which says - ‘O sons, see the greatness of muttering the name of Shri Hari– it was by this means that Ajamila was freed from the bond of death. 19.
Therefore, muttering the name of Vishnu is auspicious for the world. ‘O king (Parikshit), you should know that it is the destroyer of the greatest sins.’ (This verse is also in the Bhagavata). 20.
If it is (your) opinion that Ajamila attained moksa only by the virtue of muttering (God’s) name, then why did he practice yoga on the banks of the Ganga ? 21.
Therefore I say that he was freed from the sins by muttering the (holy) name and was freed also from Yama; he attained Moksa only on actually seeing the messengers of Vishnu. 22.
And now about the statement that in the Kali age Shri Hariis never actually visualized: no holy man knowing the Vedas ever say so. 23.
Our guru is an incarnation of Narayan-Hari.; thousands have experienced his prowess and I have also experienced it. 24.
He is well-known now by the name Sahajanand; therefore; the view expressed by you is false. 25.
Perception is the most powerful means of knowledge; it cannot be negated by such other means of knowledge as inference etc. 26.
Please listen; I shall tell you a secret endorsed by the scriptures; in fact, the wise ones should understand the purpose of the re-incarnation of Shri Harion the basis of the scriptures. 27.
It is said in the scriptures that when there is deterioration of dharma in the earth on account of the wicked, Shri Haritakes an Avatara (i.e. comes in a human form). 28.
When terrible demons and monsters, fond of violence, are born on the earth and when the gods cannot destroy them, I am born in the house of (people) doing good deeds; I assume a human body and pacify everything. 29 - 30.
This is what Shri Harisaid to Markandeya in the Mahabharata. I shall give a quotation from the Bhagavad Gita (to support this). 31.
O Arjuna, whenever there is deterioration of dharma and unrighteousness rears up its head, I am born (in a human form). 32.
In this way I am born in different ages for the protection of the good and for the destruction of the evil and for the re- establishment of dharma. 33.
O good ones, know this to be a statement of the Bhagavad Gita; it is been considered to the supreme means of knowledge. 34.
Shrimad Bhagavata is also a powerful means of knowledge; it is so because it is the essence of the Vedas, the scriptures and the Puranas. 35.
When the kings with their intelligence overshadowed with Tamas (guna) come to live with unrighteousness, at that time the Lord assumes authority, upholds truth and the cosmic order and spreads compassion and success. Thus, he acts in different ages assuming different forms for (the well-being of) the world. 36.
He is the one who in different ages, with the help of his Maya (i.e. cosmic power), assumes different forms such as gods, sages, men and lower animals and protects those who are intimidated by His enemies. 37.
Statements like these are there in hundreds in the Bhagavata Puran; they are to be taken seriously. 38.
Is it your opinion that unrighteousness has not increased in the Kali age? Is dharma strong and therefore an incarnation of Shri Hariis not warranted? 39.
Please listen to my additional argument carefully; Please ask this to those who say that in the Kali age there is no incarnation of Vishnu. 40.
The Mahabharata is the fifth Veda; in it there is the Bhagavata in which there is the story of Nar-Narayan who is only a form of Krishna and Arjun. 41.
Their birth took place in the Kali age and in the same way the birth of Buddha and of Kalki is also said in the Puranas to take place in the Kali age. Is this true or false? 42.
There are also other preceptors who re-established dharma and who were born in the Kali age. They are described by the learned as incarnations of Hari. Is that (claim) false? 43.
For these reasons it is quite clear that those who maintain that there are no incarnations in the Kali age have no knowledge of the true meaning of the scriptures. 44.
Dull-witted and prone to cheat people for money, they are not aware of the contradictions in their thinking. 45.
They narrate the tales of Him whose incarnation in the Kali age they negate. They do not know Him and ask, ‘when was He born?. 46.
The paths of the householders and the ascetics are different; the seekers of liberation should follow their own path and not any other path. 47.
All those who became seekers of liberation on the earth became so by virtue of the company of the good and attained it while others, through the company of the evil, feel down completely. 48.
If there is no Shri Hariactually anywhere in the earth, how can there be saints here who are the support of the seekers of liberation? 49.
By definition saints are those who have actual realization of Brahman; if there is no Hari, how can there be actual realization of Brahman? 50.
He, whosoever, was formerly freed from the bonds of mundane existence, was freed only on account of the coming together of Shri Hariand his devotees. 51.
If in the Kali age there is no Lord, nor are there his devotees, why should the seekers of liberation be hopeful about it? 52.
The human body is described in the scriptures as a means to liberation; one who is not freed even after getting it is called the destroyer of the self. 53.
(The Bhagavata avers) ‘The human body is the foremost ship easy to operate but difficult to get; it is well-designed and the guru is its captain; it is propelled by a favorable wind that is God Himself; if man (then) fails to cross the ocean of mundane existence, He is the destroyer of the self. 54.
In hundreds of similar statements of Hari, a man who fails to free himself from the bonds of mundane existence is called destroyer of the self. 55.
Only in the human body and never in any other kind of body is it possible for the knowledge of the self and there is no liberation without that knowledge. 56.
All agree that the human body is difficult to get; it is obtained after many births as a result of great religious merit. 57.
Now we have got that but then there is the Kali age in which there is no visualization of Hari, as some maintain. 58.
If, when there is a different age like the Satyayug and at that time we are in the animal bodies, how can that age benefit us? 59.
I know that we have passed many ages like the Satya and others but in none among them did we resort to Hari. 60.
Had we taken shelter with Shri Harieven once, how could we fall into the lump of flesh and impurities (i.e. the body)? 61.
Therefore, please understand that whenever we get human life on the earth there is a role an incarnation of Shri Hariplays in it. 62.
Otherwise the good ones would not have spoken of mans destruction of his own self. Therefore you should know it for certain that even in the Kali age, Shri Hariis here on earth. 63.
If meeting with Shri Hariwere not the means to liberation in the Kali age, then why do the people in other ages desire to be born in the Kali age? 64.
O king, people in the Krita age and other ages desire birth in the Kali age because it is in that age that they can become completely devoted to Narayan. 65.
This is what the great 3 yogis said to king Janak in the olden days. If there is no Narayan (in the Kali age), then how can there be people devoted to him? 66.
Therefore, Narayan will ever be present on this earth. Going to him, the devotees should Bhakti of the nine varieties. 67.
O devotees, all this that I have said is approved by the scriptures and (supported) by experience. If you still have any doubt, you can again put questions to me. 68.
Suvrat reported:-
O king, after hearing his arguments based on the true scriptures those debaters realized that it was difficult to vanquish him; the spectators had already perceived that. 69.
Thus ends the thirty fifth chapter entitled ‘Muktanand’s vanquishment of the debaters’ in the fourth Prakaran of Satsangijivan, the life story of Lord Narayan, also titled as ‘Dharmashastra’ (the rules of the code of conduct). 35
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